the unspoken conversations in our heads
July 14, 2006
She said, “Are all those kids yours?”
I heard, “Is that impossibly large number of children yours? Have you ever heard of birth control?”
I said, “Yes. They are all mine.”
She heard, “They are all mine. I am a saint.”
She said, “Oh my god, I didn’t know people still did that.”
I heard, “Have you ever heard of birth control?”
I said, “I was an only child so that is probably why I always wanted a larger family”
She heard, “Being an only child was so awful. Your child is going to grow up and be lonely and resentful”
She said, “What do you do? Do you work?”
I heard, “Do you just stay at home all day doing nothing but watching Oprah and eating bon-bons?”
I said, “No, I just take care of my children all day.”
She heard, “I don’t put my children in daycare and let someone else raise them.”
She said, “I could never do that. I mean it’s great that you do, but I would go crazy.”
I heard, “You are obviously mentally deficient to be around children all day and therefore I am better than you.”
I said, “Well, there are days… It is a sacrifice.”
She heard, “You suck because you aren’t willing to give up your entire life for the good of your children.”
She said, “Well we couldn’t afford it. We want to give our kids everything, you know.”
I heard, “Unlike you who wants to give your kids nothing.”
I said, “Yes, I guess I am… lucky.”
She heard, “Poor you forced to toil away at a job when everyone knows that it is better to stay at home with your children. Too bad your husband didn’t make more money.”
She said, “How are you going to afford to send all those children to college?”
I heard, “How could you be such an irresponsible breeder and not think of the cost of a private college education times seven? Don’t you want the best things that money can buy for your children?”
I said, “No one gave my husband or me a free ride, and I’d like to think we are doing fine. It will work out.”
She heard, “Your priorities are all screwed up.”
She said, “Wow, and now you stay home? Even with a college education?”
I heard, “I thought you were too stupid to know better before, now I think you are a sell out to the feminist movement. What a waste of an education.”
I said, “Yes. I do.”
Silence.
I thought, “Why do I feel like I have to justify all my decisions. I wish I were as confident as she is that I have made the right choices.”
She thought, “Why do I feel like I have to justify all my decisions. I wish I were as confident as she is that I have made the right choices.”
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very astute. It’s sad that we so often feel attacked and defensive and can’t really often relate, during such conversations, on the plane of moms who love their children and are doing the best we can.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:38 amYou know, I still prefer it when stuff like that is the subtext rather than actually said out loud - for example:
July 14th, 2006 at 5:40 am50-ish Woman - And what do you do now, Rebecca?
Me - I’m home with my kids.
Woman - Huh. And here I’d always heard you were smart.
Out loud! She said it out loud! Inferred is BETTER!
I have that thought many times. Like we need to justify how we live our lives or raise our children. It is not anyone else’s business but our own. I am personally sick of having to justify why I work and send my son to daycare.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:57 amWhat an incredible site you have here. Excellent!
Thanks for sharing.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:58 amI liked that!
July 14th, 2006 at 6:13 amI want to just go on record saying I think it is wonderful that you have 7 children! I think it is better than great that you are able to stay home with them and enjoy this time because they do grow up way too fast. I love your daily notes because they make me smile. I want to give my son everything too, but we don’t because that’s not good either. Teaching your children that you must work for things in life is a much better lesson at the end of the day.
July 14th, 2006 at 6:17 amBRILLIANT! Bravo, bravo. I’ve never heard it nailed down like that quite so succinctly, but you’ve done it. THAT is exactly how it is.
Only you forgot to work in breastfeeding, circumcisions, and cosleeping to the whole thing. Oh, and homeschooling. If you could get the sub-text of EVERY mommy-war issue, I might just bow at your feet (hey, and while I’m down there, I’ll scrub your floors because… SEVEN kids? You need all the help you can get {says the mother to 5}).
July 14th, 2006 at 6:29 amAmen to that! Both sides of the mom spectrum come in loaded with their own ideas and perceptions. I worked with a gal who had three kids and she said she was ALWAYS getting rude comments ie. if she had ever heard of birth control.
We all just need to remind ourselves that we do what’s best for OUR family and to keep our noses out of everyone’s business. Personally, I couldn’t handle as many as you but I totally respect and admire you for it!
July 14th, 2006 at 6:37 amHa ha, classic! You could write a whole book in this format!
July 14th, 2006 at 6:42 amHeh. These sorts of conversations are maddening, but you managed to turn it in to good blog fodder.
I’m always surprised when people think someone with a college education shouldn’t be “wasting” herself staying with her kids. I went to college and grad school primarily to become a more educated person, not so that I could find a better job some day (not that that is a horrible reason to get more schooling either).
July 14th, 2006 at 6:44 amI have had that EXACT conversation before, many times, except I have 3 kids. I also homeschool, so there is something else they can tell me that “they could never do”!!
P.S. LOVE your site!!
July 14th, 2006 at 6:47 amOh my goodness! I have that same conversation all the time. Especially when I tell people I homeschool. They hear, “The schools you send your kids are no where good enough for my children.” and I hear, “You are overprotective and elitist and you are screwing up your kids.”
July 14th, 2006 at 6:48 amAs one who has one and would like more but it ain’t gonna happen in this life….I admire you and respect you.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:24 amDang, you’re good! That was a great piece.
For the record, when I see someone with a large family (I think most people define a large family as one more than the number they have, so for me that means three! How wimpy is that?) I think (but never say out loud,) “Wow, __ kids, I could never do that. I’m too selfish, too disorganized, too lazy, too crazy. She must be a saint.” And the same for homeschooling. When I say, “I could never homeschool,” I am thinking because of the above reasons and because I think my son and I would kill each other.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:37 amYou have hit the nail on the head exactly. Everyone has a different viewpoint and there’s a million sides to every issue, it’s amazing that we all haven’t blown each other up yet.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:43 amThat was a kick-ass post, Chris. I think what you do every day is great. But what I most admire is the way you do it.
Your blog is cool too.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:44 amI have had this same conversation plenty of times.
My favorite is “Do you work?”
I want to say ” I wake up before you, go to bed after you and pretty much never have a free minute to breath”
Yeah, I work.
Oh yeah AND my job is never ever done.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:47 amBravo! I work in an office and have only one child. I try as hard as I can to avoid those conversations and those judgments but I regularly find myself once again entwined in either justifying my choices or seeming to be questioning someone else’s choices.
I love reading your blog and I thank you for it.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:51 amYou could write a conversation like this for the whole homeschool vs. public school debate too. It is almost impossible to talk about this with someone in the ‘other camp’ without the subtexts. I have gotten in the habit of emphasizing very strongly that homeschooling is the right things FOR US, but not necessarily for everyone, because the conversation arouses so much defensiveness.
When I talk about the good of homeschooling I do so NOT to DISS someone else’s choice, but always to justify/explain MY decision. But it is sooo hard to get that across. In fact, even as I write this I am hoping people won’t read a meaning I don’t intend into my words!
Anyway. Great post.
Mary
July 14th, 2006 at 7:51 amI have that conversation all the time. I through n that I go toschool full time and they tell me that they dont know how I can manage all I do…..like it is super hard. I tell them to come to my home and they can dust, mop and wipe handprints all things shiney.
July 14th, 2006 at 7:54 amWho ARE these people?!
July 14th, 2006 at 8:54 amWhy do we all always feel like we need to compete? It seems like we cna’t just be happy with what we have. I struggle every day to feel content with what I have, but it isn’t easy. That type of dialog goes through my head all the time.
July 14th, 2006 at 9:11 amThank you, that was very good.
I’m a college educated woman staying home with my girls and I still lack confidence to back up my choices when questioned. And I see that same lack of confidence in working women, as you finely pointed out.
July 14th, 2006 at 9:22 am“I didn’t think people still did that?”
Huh? That is the funniest line! I was at Office Depot with my 5 kids and this lady counted out loud and said, “They all yours?” Nice grammar by the way. I said, “yes”. She just whistled.
Why? Amy
July 14th, 2006 at 9:28 amGoodness me this is spot on. Very good.
July 14th, 2006 at 9:42 amJust last weekend I was chatting with another mother and it came out that I stayed home and that she is a teacher. As we talked, I mentioned how guilty I felt staying home with the children - yes, with a college education - for not contributing to the expenses, for not helping to work for our future, etc. And, things aren’t that great financially here. She looked at me in total surprise and said, “I never looked at it that way. I always feel guilty for not staying home and felt like my stay at home mom friends judged me.” It is difficult to step out of our lives and look at other perspectives.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:11 amGreat post! I feel a bit like I am on both sides of the issue. I work part-time; some weeks I only work one day. I do it partly for financial reasons, and partly for me. My job is such and the technology changes too much that if I left it completely for a long time I’d never get back into it. I worked with a lady who left for a number of years (20, I think) and then went back to school and did her internship all over again to come back to work after her children were grown. I admired her.
That being said, I always associate myself more with stay-at-home moms. I think if our situation were perfect, I’d stay at home full time. I had always planned to, even before I met my husband and thought about getting married. My best friend works full time, and it’s something that sadly, we never talk about. I’m sure it’s because of all of our insecurities with our decisions.
July 14th, 2006 at 10:38 amVery well stated.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:04 am*standing up and applauding*
I hate all the subtext bullshit we are subjected to as mothers. Posts like this really turn the light on the insecurity that we all face, no matter what our choices.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:14 amanother one piping in to say “well said”
i hate these conversations, i always feel like i’ve put my foot in my mouth or like i’ve been inarticulate. and I only have 3
July 14th, 2006 at 11:14 amVery, very well stated. Wasn’t the feminist movement about choices and not judging people who make choices different from our own, regardless of gender? Thanks for the post! It was awesome.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:16 amHow awesome to grow up in such a fun house. With all those siblings! I “only” have 3 (brothers/sister) and how cool it would be to have 3 more!
thanks for sharing your daily shenanigans.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:18 amVery well said. I applaud you for your choices and for raising and loving your kids your way. They are only kids once.
July 14th, 2006 at 11:45 amChit chat with other moms can be such a minefield. Parenting in public means constantly being evaluated and on display. Lots of defensiveness out there. As a result, I just don’t talk much with moms who I don’t know already. There is nothing special about me, nothing to call attention to my two kids. I stay at home with them, not from any deep desire, but simply because we can afford it. I am also a very shy, nerdy person who loathes office politics, bosses, end-of-year evaluations, and so on. Yes, I ran away from corporate America 6 years ago, and found a refuge as a cookie-baking traditional mommy. C’mon everyone! JUDGE ME! Deflector shields are up.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:02 pmI was “stay at home” for fifteen years until my youngest (of 3) was in school full time….I consider those years to be the best and most productive years of my life
July 14th, 2006 at 12:08 pmA thought-provoking and amusing post all in one! I wrote about something similar a while back… I’ve often thought of being a SAHM one day, but whenever I share that with someone they act as if I’d be wasting all my education if I did that. Gah!
Anyways, I’m linking you.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:17 pmWpw! How profound. You are not only confident that what you are doing is right for you, but you have insight and empathy for how others think and feel. This is so refreshing. I get so tired of people being sanctimonious and judgmental. We have to do what is best for us and for our families. I happen to agree with your choice, but realize there are women out there who would be miserable stay-at-home mothers, and their children would suffer because of mom’s misery. I have been on both sides of the issue. I was lucky enough to be a stay-at-home mom until circumstances forced me to work outside the home.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:32 pmYou are so articulate. I really like the what she said/what she heard - I wonder if there’s a what she meant as a third category. I’m sure I’ve been guilty of saying some of the thoughtless things you mention - I hope I’m learning not to - but just because people stick their foot in their mouths doesn’t necessarily mean they’re criticizing your choice. I guess what I’m trying to say is that not every inarticulate oaf is really a judgement oaf - just a thoughtless one.
I especially like your comment about confidence w/choices. As a work outside the home Mom of 3 I am frequently uncomfortable w/the stay-at-home Moms at the bus stop - wondering if they’re criticizing my going to work and not being home to meet the bus. On my good days I realize first - they’re probably too busy w/their own lives to worry about mine and ultimately it only matters that our family is happy w/our decision and that I make a point of respecting others.
Whew - sorry to ramble. Anyway - I really like your post and your blog.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:47 pmPure brilliance.
I work part-time, and often find myself having that conversation — with myself. My “working” self talks to my “home” self. Luckily, they like and respect each other. (Although the “working” self can’t quite understand how the “home” self can’t manage to get dressed or showered until after lunch some days….)
July 14th, 2006 at 1:13 pmI am a SAHM too….. a Social, Academic and Household Manager. Am I confident in my choice? Not always- but I am confident that kids are only kids for a short while- and long after they’re gone I’ll have my time.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:30 pmIt unfortunate that women are not yet more confident that they are making the right choices for themselves and their families.
Whenever anyone asks me when I will start having kids and I say “a quarter past never” or some variation, I always hear: “Well, that’s selfish - your husband (to be) will probably leave you. Why wouldn’t you want to experience the joy that is motherhood.”
And if I do have kids, I know that I will second guess every pareting decision I make, the decision to go back to work, to use daycare, to lock them in the basement when they get noisy….etc.
Thanks for capturing the unfortunate lack of confidence we all have about motherhood (or lack thereof).
July 14th, 2006 at 1:51 pmBrilliantly done. That’s all.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:52 pmGreat piece of writing. Just brilliant.
July 14th, 2006 at 1:52 pmthis should be in your top 5 posts. it left me speechless and floored.
July 14th, 2006 at 2:00 pmAbsolutely priceless. Send that to a magazine PRONTO!!!!!
July 14th, 2006 at 2:57 pmWhat a wonderful post!
I once read something another woman said, and I think it needs to be put on every T-shirt in the world: “A revolutionary act would be women refusing to $h!t on each other.” (Okay, it’s kinda potty mouthy, so not /every/ T-shirt. But on a few, at least!
)
July 14th, 2006 at 3:37 pmWhen I see a woman with a alrge family, my first thought is to try and make friends with her so that I can learn everything I can from her greater experience. Of course, all of the woman I have known with large families have been amazing woman, and great mentors for me beginning with my Great grandmother who had six, my grandmother who had 11, my other grandmother who had 8, my mother in law with 8, my dearest friend in college, who now has 6, etc… and now all of the internet mothers of large families as well.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:49 pmYes, I’ve gotten the subtexts because we homebirth, homeschool, are expecting our (gasp!) fourth child. But also, our oldest is a child with multiple handicaps. I’ve often heard from well-meaning people “God knew what he was doing when he gave Connor to you. I don’t have the patience.” As if being impatient were the answer to avoiding the challenges in life; if only I’d known sooner!
July 14th, 2006 at 4:58 pmChris - Could you just send this in to every women’s magazine there is? Or, you probably have to do one at a time, but I’ve seen lots of articles on this topic and none as balanced and insightful as yours. I think the last one I read was in a Self magazine at Great Clips. So, you should get paid for it. That’s not to say you need to do paid work, argh, have I just stepped into it? Blast. I hope you know what I mean.
July 14th, 2006 at 5:15 pmWhat a fantastic summation of the media perpetuated mommywars. If only Caitlin Flannagan and Linda Hirshman had read this, perhaps we could be focusing on more important world events than our own personal choices - none of which come without sacrifices.
Brava!
July 14th, 2006 at 6:40 pmChris -
July 14th, 2006 at 7:05 pmI think you should be shopping book deals with your hilarious and insightful writing. I know I would buy your book…. okay, at least check it out from the library since I’m cheap! I found your blog a few months ago when it was mentioned in some parenting magazine and I have since gone back and read all your archived posts. Your writing was good to start out with and has just gotten better and better!
I work in an office full of arrogant mothers, with children that have been raised in daycares since the moment their mothers paternity leave ran out.
They just drop them off, without even flinching at a very young 6 weeks of age. SIX WEEKS OLD!I would have died if I had to do that. They pump breast milk at work, its quite a show sometimes. AND, I am the odd ball out, for feeling guilty about not being home with my baby, who is EIGHT years old now. Your damned if you do stay home and damned if you dont, anymore. (sigh)
July 14th, 2006 at 7:20 pmWhat a wonderful blog. I have been reading your blog for about a month (have gone back and read everything) I would love to get to know you and buy you a drink or two. I only have two boys ages 19 and 18 and I am impressed by your family.
You are a great writer and we think a lot alike.
July 14th, 2006 at 8:08 pmI have had this conversation many times myself. Except in our case it’s my husband that stays home with our kids. So we get some rude comments about that.
It’s funny. Both my husband and I are [sort of] only children. My brother and sister were born when I was in high school and my husband has siblings he never met until recently. I’ve always kind of figured that’s why we chose to have five kids. [Not that being an only child is bad. It definitely has some awesome perks ;)]
July 14th, 2006 at 10:26 pmI really appreciate how you presented both sides of this struggle. Well done!
July 14th, 2006 at 11:18 pmUntil I read the last line my comment was going to be, “but I bet she wonders if she has made the right decision not to stay home with her children”. Most women who work, even part time, worry about wether or not they are doing the right thing.
July 15th, 2006 at 12:14 amGood post Chris. I come from a family of three girls and I always wished that I had more siblings. Having said that, whever I do see a large family, I do think, “wow, are all those kids hers/his/theirs?”. Well duh! Of course they are, and then I smile and think how lucky they are.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:37 amBlaze on sister! I’m jealous up here in Seattle (I don’t have any kids).
I think this was incredibly perceptive. It also brings up an old ongoing pet peeve, which is the way woman don’t work together. Oh, yeah, we put on bake sales(with the catty undercurrent) and PTO meetings and whatever else, but if we could ever get to the point where we were having this conversation without feeling we had to justify ourselves and our choices, I think we could accomplish a lot more. I stay home with my 3 and had 5 stepchildren first(full custody) who are grown,gone and missed. I did work til I was 31, but even then there’s the divide between what “you do” and what “I do.” Long ago, I was waitressing, had a table of 3 “professional women” and I jumped in on some comment one had made. They looked at me like a chair had decided to speak, since what I said was halfways intelligent. Boy, bring me another beer. I’m not getting my point across well at all. Do men do this? Other than the stay at home dad, which is a role for the very brave, but everything else? Are they like this? Anyway, Chris, that was very well said, well written. Guess I’ll keep trying to figure my own stuff out.
July 15th, 2006 at 1:56 amSometimes it’s so hard to have a conversation, with a mom who is doing things differently, just because of that defensive undercurrent, that you are talking about. Maybe that’s why the blogging conversation is so great - everyone can say what they really think and if the reader don’t like it, they can stop reading!
July 15th, 2006 at 2:02 amI hate “Do you WORK??” grr… how can you answer that without sounding bitter?? Anyone??
July 15th, 2006 at 4:07 amGreat post, Chris. Really great post.
From a college-educated SAHM who sometimes dreams of going back to work!
July 15th, 2006 at 4:19 amyou think you have it bad.
at some point in my relationship with people they find out that i am a doctor and choose not to practice, but to stay home with my 5 kids.
i ALWAYS get very puzzled looks of concern.
i just smile.
i guess i am not looking for their approval - i just think their reactions are amazingly funny.
just wait until your kids are college bound.
major subtext conversations.
i just stopped being polite.
both of my older children, who are extremely sweet and bright kids, only applied to and attended our state university- the very fine university of maryland, college park. most folks in our uppity montgomery county are far too superior to attend a state school.
my conversations usually went like this:
uppity person: so, where is ______ going next year?
me: umd, college park
uppity person: oh (pause). really??
me: yes, it was the only place they applied, so i think it is a very good thing.
uppity person: oh. (pause). well i think it is so important to get the best education possible. i feel that private universities offer so much more. i went to __________ (fill in 2nd tier private university) and learned nso much from the experience.
me (seething quietly): really?!? because i went to yale and the most important thing i learned is that i really don’t like rich snobby people.
that was usually the end of the conversation.
July 15th, 2006 at 4:20 amThat is exactly the way these conversations are interpreted.
I am to the point where whenever I find myself being judgemental with another parent, I force myself to trace that feeling back to it’s roots. It always comes back to jealousy and insecurity on my behalf. Unless a child is being grossly neglected or abused. Then I just want to beat on them. Ha.
July 15th, 2006 at 5:39 amThat is exactly conversations I have had. My first visit to your blog, it is great, I even blogrolled you.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:13 amI gave you some link love
July 15th, 2006 at 7:45 amhttp://linkateria.blogspot.com/2006/07/summer-saturday.html
Wow! What a hot topic! Is this the most comments ever?
I too am a at-home, homeschooling mom with many (almost 10) children. I think it’s the best life ever, so it IS hard for me sometimes to understand why everybody doesn’t do this. I can’t imagine missing this. That being said, I hope that moms who make different choices also feel that way about what they do.
And no, men do not dump on each other’s choices the way women do.
As for the “do you work?” question; I usually ask “what do you do?” But, I’m open to a more creative, affirming suggestion. Thanks for the great post, Chris.
July 15th, 2006 at 8:48 amChris, you are always so perceptive and funny, but this is the ultimate. It should be required reading for any mom who steps out of her house and talks to another mom. I agree- send it on to magazines! The world of motherhood needs to hear this!
I’m a SAHM, I work PT nights/weekends in a deli, I have a college degree, and people STILL wonder about my choices- you can’t win!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:57 am[...] Chris wrote a great post about the unspoken conversations in our heads, and how we all compare ourselves to eachother. [...]
July 15th, 2006 at 10:23 amYou know, you handled that much better than I would have if presented with the same situation. I hate when we have to justify everything simply because people don’t understand that there’s this simple thing call “personal choice.” Gah.
July 15th, 2006 at 10:48 amAMEN!!! We’re expecting #4 and I swear sometimes people look at me like I’ve just grown an extra head on my body!
July 15th, 2006 at 11:03 amYip Yip Yooray.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:06 amNOW if only we’d take the time to recognize how we speak to one another, as woman - to lift one another up and stop the tearing down. Together we’ll conquer - divided we fall and fail one another.
Women could be so much more united and strong if we weren’t so busy tearing the shit out of each other. Great post Chris!
July 15th, 2006 at 11:16 amCan you see me jumping up and down from there? I am. I am so proud to be one of those SMART moms who stay home. I might be able to make more money than my husband (maybe) but we both agreed that I would stay home and raise what kids we had. It’s our PLAN. We didn’t do this on accident. We meant to do this. It’s PURPOSEFUL.
Amen, sister!
July 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pmHeck, I only have 3 and people ask me “Are they all yours?” when we are out.
Great post. I am also a sahm with a college degree also working on my graduate degree. I always feel people secretly think I stay at home because I don’t know how to do anything else. I always feel obliged to blurt out “I am a former teacher.” Oops. See? I just did it again.
July 15th, 2006 at 6:19 pmSo true!
July 15th, 2006 at 8:26 pmChris-
I cannot tell you how many times I have had this same conversation with people.
I actually have had people ask me if all (I have 5) my children have the same father. This is the question following, Are they all yours?
I truely enjoy reading your blog everyday, You are an inspiration not only to moms of large families but all moms in general.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:17 pmYes, yes, yes.
And honestly? I’ve been guilty of some of that knee-jerk subtext myself. I think that a lot of it is so ingrained, so subtle…
One needs to see it written “out loud” to know when to recognize that they are hearing it in their own head.
July 15th, 2006 at 9:22 pmI actually think the mom who started asking the questions was rude and inappropriate.
July 15th, 2006 at 11:21 pm[...] At Notes From The Trenches: “The Unspoken Conversations in Our Heads.” Here is an excerpt: She said, “Are all those kids yours?” [...]
July 16th, 2006 at 4:25 amChris. This was BRILLIANT. This needs to be, like, printed out and shown to every mother, stay-at-home or working. I think you did such a great job of portraying what both sides are saying and thinking without writing a long Mommy Wars post. AWESOME.
July 16th, 2006 at 6:16 amThank you for capturing the awkwardness and tension between moms….all of us have been there on one issue or another.
You are so gifted…
July 16th, 2006 at 7:26 amGreat post. I don’t hear most of the implied conversations any more. I’ve been a working and then stay at home and then work at home mom and they’re all good and equal if it’s what works for you. Same for how many kids you have.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:42 amI thought, “How could you possibly abandon your kids for hours so you can blog and read all the comments left to your posts?” …JK!
July 16th, 2006 at 8:52 amGreat point: About half of all conversation is purely based on implication/inferrment. I guess that’s why mankind is still in so much need of improving themselves. I’m liking this blog more every day.
What a wonderful post. Looking at someone you could see as an “enemy” or “opponent” as instead another mom trying to do her best… your empathy and self-awareness is remarkable. (I think some of your commenters missed the point, but that happens.) I’d like to think I’d be able to respond like you did to a conversation like this… but in reality, I’d probably just stay stuck in defensiveness.
July 16th, 2006 at 9:52 amThat’s so accurate to how it happens! How many times I’ve had that conversation… from both sides (not that I have 7 kids - but it’s much the same unspoken conversation if you’re having it with a woman who doesn’t have kids.)
This sort of conversation would make an excellent comic strip. Becoming a mom made me see that every conversation I have as a mom is extra-loaded with cultural baggage. I don’t know anyone who is blind to it - it changes our identities forever.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:51 amOh and by the way… if you throw race into that discussion it gets even more heinous — I hear the “oh she has too many children” conversation happen on a whole other level of ugly when it comes from a white upper class mom to/about a latina mom.
July 16th, 2006 at 10:54 amI think that every mom deals with this every time she leaves her home.
July 16th, 2006 at 12:10 pmWow… so this doesn’t get any better, eh?
I just graduated last year, got married a month later and 10 months after my wedding, gave birth to my baby girl. So when I see old classmates from college, I think they’re thinking the same things regarding my “misused” education and parenthood.
But, like another woman already stated above, I personally chose to go to college to learn, not to get a job (I studied art and literature, go figure).
I really appreciated this post of yours! Good work, Chris.
July 16th, 2006 at 2:38 pmYes! That’s it exactly. Thanks!
July 16th, 2006 at 2:46 pmAmen a thousand times over! I have been lurking on your site for quite some time now, but I just could not pass up the opportunity to tell you what an amazing mother you are. “How do you know that?” you ask, well…I guess I have been lurking that long
And I just happen to think SAHM, like myself, get a bad rap.
So thank you, thank you, thank you.
July 16th, 2006 at 7:28 pmIn a day and age when we Moms need to be there for our children more than ever, it’s sad we need to explain ourselves away! I, too have been home with my kids for the past 15 years, leaving my own “career” behind for a better one, raising future adults. I only hope I succeed. I do know this, I will have done much better job than a substitute could have done for my own children. That is not to say, that those who are taking care of other’s children, or those leaving their children are doing any less. But for MY children, I know what I did was best. No regrets. No amount of money could have changed that.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:47 amWow, great post. As comment number 93, I’m not sure what is left to say…
except maybe thanks. I love thinking about this stuff..
July 17th, 2006 at 9:01 amWhy does everyone feel they have to be right? What’s right for me isn’t right for you, and vice versa. Different strokes for different folks. This is a great piece.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:30 amYou have *SO* made the right decision, Chris. Please don’t ever doubt that for another second.
July 17th, 2006 at 10:16 amLove it!
July 17th, 2006 at 2:42 pmGreat post, Chris. Before becoming a mother I had no idea how from the time of conception - heck, even before conception (fertility treatments, etc) - your every decision and action is subject to such intense scrutiny by other moms and society at large. (”natural” vs c-section, drugs or no drugs, breast or bottle, and on and on)
Rebecca Steinitz wrote a great op-ed piece at Literary Mama on the same theme recently….check it out at:
http://www.literarymama.com/oped/archives/000954.html
July 17th, 2006 at 10:57 pmSo true.
I’ve also noticed a bit of a battle between SAHMs too. For instance, at this point, it’s almost impossible for me to be a regular class helper. I can maybe do holiday crafts and I definitely do field trips, but if it’s a spur of the moment thing, or when the teachers ask for weekly volunteers, I just can’t do it until my youngest is in school herself. It would either be torture on everyone else while I chased the little ones around, or let someone else do it. I pick the second.
Last year, one of my daughters had to go on two field trips a week apart. Since my husband has to take a vacation day in order for one of us to go to these, I picked the big trip. When I was asked if I was going on the next trip, I explained that I couldn’t because of a lack of a babysitter. The other mother gasped and said, “But she’s only in second grade once!” I said, “Are you going?” to which she replied, “Well, of COURSE!” I had all I could do not to kick her in the shin as I walked away.
Since then, I’ve noticed how some of the SAHMs who help out in class on a regular basis have an attitude towards the other SAHMs who can’t help. It’s so sad!
July 18th, 2006 at 9:35 amThanks for putting in writing what we do everyday. When I was pregnant with #3 I received so many funny looks from people while out with my 3 yo and 1 yo like I was growing another head. My husband and I planned on working and saving before kids so that when we were blessed with a family I would be able to stay home. That is our choice, and our choice for our family alone.
July 18th, 2006 at 12:05 pmI wasn’t going to comment but the lure being #100 is too great!
I loved this post and as someone who *thought* she wanted to be a SAHM and realised after a few months that she didn’t have the personality to pull it off, this “conversation” captures pretty much all the insecurities I went through when I finally went back to work.
On the other hand, I think mommy drive-by comments make great practice for the selective hearing skills I will require when my child is a little older.
July 19th, 2006 at 8:48 pmI have always worked, always. It defined my character, even though I had crappy jobs. I was a single mom after all. Gotta work, gotta struggle feed my kid and all.
I got married and I had another child, now I stay at home. I feel so guilty for the way I had always felt about stay at home moms. Even if I didn’t say it, the feeling was there that they were lazy or at least unambitious. But that was the way that I protected my ego. The shame of being away from my daughter sooooo much and having to work sooooo many hours was too hard to deal with at the time: but I see it now. I love being home with my babies!!!
July 20th, 2006 at 8:29 pmShould I stay or should I work?…
If you’re really convinced that your decision is the only “right” choice for every woman who ever had a child, go and have a look at the secret conversation going on between mothers, over at Notes from the Trenches. You will see that whatever choice…
July 21st, 2006 at 7:11 amMy first visit to your blog, and LOVE LOVE LOVE that blog! I’m a 29 yr old mother of 4, ages ,7,6,2,1….all too many times I’ve had the above conversation, all too many times I felt the same way. Your blog was PERFECT…and I am now going to be a “regular” here.
July 21st, 2006 at 2:54 pm[...] of this week’s Your Turn topic about judgementalism and defensiveness, Chris at Notes from the Trenches has a very funny and astute post today. [...]
September 12th, 2007 at 7:59 pm