Difficult Child
June 21, 2009
I have often said, half-jokingly, that my 13 year old son would be the model prisoner of war. There is absolutely nothing you could do to him to break him. He does not respond to punishment or threats in any way. And the more you try to punish him, the more he digs his heels in and refuses to comply. And while I have never beaten him unconcious with a baseball bat I am pretty certain that wouldn’t work either. He would regain conciousness even more pissed of and determined not to do whatever it was you wanted him to do.
I am embarassed to admit how many times I have threatened him with various punishments, having it turn into a shouting match as it escalates and pretty soon I am saying that he is never ever leaving his room again for the rest of his natural life, WHICH MIGHT JUST COME TO AN END VERY SOON.
Just say you are sorry, son! Just feel bad! Repent! But when I say you are going to be grounded and you say, “Whatever,” it just makes me angrier. It makes me want to make the punishment worse so you will UNDERSTAND THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS.
“Now you are grounded for the entire week!”
“So. I really don’t care.”
“Oh, you will care. TWO WEEKS.”
“Whatever.”
“Should I make it THREE?!?”
“Go ahead.”
“We could keep at this all afternoon, son”
Crossing your arms and saying, “Bring it on,” makes me crazy.
And I realize that this exchange says just as much about me as it does my son.
This weekend I came across this article in the Atlantic from 1994, How We Become What We Are, that I was forced to read and re-read several times. It resonated with me on so many levels. I found myself nodding my head along with much of the article.
Time and technology have shrunk the number of acceptable outlets for the daring, aggressive nature that swung the sword and mapped the unknown, until it has come to be associated primarily with criminals. This saddens but doesn’t surprise Lykken, a professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota; his work, some of it conducted with subjects behind bars, convinces him that “the psychopath and the hero are twigs of the same branch.”
I used to blame myself for this. But after having 5 other children who are not at all like this, I realize it is just his inborn temperment. Yes, there is one more child who is just like him. They are the two who act before they think, who don’t readily learn from their own mistakes, never learn from the mistakes of others. They are the thrill seekers with multiple scars to show for it.
…praise can sometimes inspire better behavior than punishment, which only makes some tough kids tougher. “If your temperament is such that fear doesn’t play a big role in your life,” Lykken says, “you’re less likely to pay attention to punishment, which depends on the desire to avoid anxiety. That kind of child may care if people stop admiring him, though, so the way to socialize him is by giving him a sense of pride, as successful coaches do.”
All I can say is that my difficult child(ren) should be thankful that I am not like him (them). Fear of going to prison is what keeps me from killing him (them) some days.
And not to make it seem all negative, they are also the ones who love deeply and fiercely. They are passionate. Except when they aren’t. They work hard at the things that matter to them, some might call them perfectionists. Except when they aren’t. If you were on a plane that crashed in the jungle, stranding you, you would want them with you. They are problem solvers. My 13 year old son fixes everything around the house, things like DVD players and computers and garage door openers. He just knows how to fix stuff. Like the Professor on Giligan’s Island, but with a quick temper and fierce attitude.
Neither of these sons feels pain in a normal way either, at least not in any way that would deter them from doing something. (See mention of scars above)
The naturally fearless, for example, live in the fast lane from their diaper days. As soon as they can crawl, they’re everywhere at once, exploring, falling, pushing the limits. Later “they climb a few fences, become desensitized, and climb up on the roof”
I have found them both on the roof at different times. And in trees higher than our roof not too long after they were out of diapers. Oh, and there was that one time when my 13 yr old was around 4 years old and he took an axe out of the basement and chopped down a tree in the yard. A huge tree that could have hurt him, and the house for that matter. But neither happened, further fueling his delusions of granduer that he is capable of doing anything.
It is a miracle that these sons of mine are still alive. And that I have any hair left on my head.
I am working on my cake baking/ file hiding inside the cake skills. Just in case.
Edited to add:
After writing this I began thinking about all of the things my son has done in the past, good things that show his ingenuity.
Like when he drilled his own fingernail.
Or put out a fire in our oven while my oldest son and I stood back, marveled at the flames, and said, “wow, this sucks,” to each other.
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My number three is EXACTLY like this….he is only three and I swear he has given me more gray hairs already than all of his other three brothers COMBINED!!!
June 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pmMy 13-year-old son is JUST LIKE THAT. Our first major battle of wills was potty training, and it has escalated from there. My daughter, on the other hand, is a rule follower and lives to please us, sometimes to the extreme. Naturally, her brother is convinced that we love her more because she never gets into trouble. This bright kid cannot grasp the fact that it’s because she (almost) never does anything wrong. Except for the tattling. Ugh.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pmI know how hard it can be. I think you have been doing great so far. I have noticed with myself that I find myself in a shouting match with my 5yr old and I shouldn’t let it result to that. But that’s just the way it is sometimes. As long are there are more better days than not we will survive.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pmOh, I can relate. I have three year old twins… my girl is a daredevil and my little guy is afraid of everything. Both of them make my lose my minds at times. She does because she is always scaring the you know what out of me and he does because he is clinging to me like his life depends on it.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pmThe joy of motherhood! It’s a good thing they are cute.
It never fails to amaze me that two children born into the same family can have such wide differences in character. I suppose most families (myself included) don’t see the broadest scope of this - having only one or two kids kinda limits the ability to compare and contrast. But how does it happen that children raised with the exact same limits, discipline, love, and surroundings turn out so differently? They just do. Nature vs. Nurture, baby.
June 21st, 2009 at 2:54 pmOh,Chris, I know exactly what you are talking about. My now 24 year old was/is just like that. He was running and climbing just as soon as he started to walk, at 9 months. On the roof many times in his young life.When he was 12 he climbed very high up in a tree outside of his psychologists office before his appointment. He fell and an ambulance had to come.
You could take everything and anything away from him as punishment, or ground him forever, he just didn’t care. On the other hand he was the easiest child to buy presents for. He would be happy and occupied with anything you gave him. We still laugh about the treasure hunt that we sent him on for his birthday present. It led to a pan of uncooked Jiffy Pop popcorn (as a joke) and he was so excited, thinking that that was his real gift. He truly loved it. He also takes everything apart and fixes it, sometimes.
I think that you are very smart to home school your kids. That is something that I would do differently if I could do it all over again, for this son, anyway. This is where most of his and my grief came from. Delusions of grandeur are ever present in our house. I just tell myself “I can outlast this”.
The cake baking/ file hiding skills are a good idea. Just in case. though.
June 21st, 2009 at 3:29 pmOh, I think my Mom could understand you perfectly well. Me and my brother. I was the stubborn one and he was the fearless one. I was really terrible, if I was grounded I wouldn’t even go with my Mom help her carry groceries home. Because she told me NOT to leave home. I also have a feeling that my parents wanted me to be a boy, and I was the only girl in the neighbourhood climbing trees and fighting with boys, chopping wood and riding motorbikes with guys. Not really the fearless kind though. My brother fulfilled this 100%. No idea what to do with it. At school (i’m a teacher) I’d probably find a way to direct the fearlessness into some creative activity pretending not to control it. Good luck.
June 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pmNot that you need relief…maybe drugs instead…but I am raising a son MUCH like yours. He can honestly bring me to the brink of insanity and then turn around and make me melt by the mere size of his heart. I no longer have a natural hair color, the fact that I had a streak of gray on the day of his birth should have been my indicator.
June 21st, 2009 at 4:10 pmWe will survive, so will they.
My goodness! I have been thinking about this very same concept, ecause I have two children (mine are girls) who are the same way. Both have been stranded in trees two stories in the air, only to either a) drop into their father’s hands or b) figure out a way to get down. Both have been on the roof, both have dived off the highdive before turning six. Neither lets cuts and scrapes slow them down and they both drive me insane with the questions/ challenges.
I once lived with a “psychopath” and recognized the same traits (as referenced above) but have since come to the conclusion that psychopaths are heros gone bad. It is as simple as that.
As a mother, I will do all I can to model right behavior and to attempt to point out dangers, but in the end, it is a choice they make. It is the reason I continue to pray….for them. It is for them, I pray, that if God exists, he will keep them from harming themselves and others with the charisma that has been given them. It is a gift- they are both people magnets and much admired by their peers.
I think they could not be more different than me, but they inspire me daily to do more and fear less.
June 21st, 2009 at 4:25 pmSend me a copy of your cake baking/file hiding skills.
I too may need them. Our only son is this way also.
It does not matter what we say or do he will not comply if he does not want to. He is not motivated by anything.
well sometimes food motivates him but only if he wants to do the chore/task in the first place.
How do these two sons of yours do in their school work. I ask because mine deceiced this year that school was not for him and he has the grades to prove it.
If you find the magic pill for yours please pass it along to the rest of us
June 21st, 2009 at 4:45 pmI was just joking this weekend to a friend, that just by sheer numbers the odds are that I will be working to keep at least one of my kids out of jail. He is the same one who fits the description of your 13yo, though mine is only 9. He should have been born into a trapping, trading, frontier family. He is only happy when he is out doing something NOT age-appropriate, and only if it is his own idea. Threatening punishments only serve to make him give up any sense of trying to behave at all. He does like praise, but is perfectly happy with false praise; that is, what you are complimenting about him doesn’t necessarily have to be true. His work could be shoddy, or it could be someone else’s that he’s taking credit for. Sometimes his creative genius astounds me; more often his laziness does. He also lies like a rug, and won’t give it up even when he is caught in the act. He’ll never give up a fight, coming back again and again even if it’s a lost cause, and even if he is crying like a baby the whole time (he often cries like a baby, and by that I mean he does the 6 mo wailing wah wah wah - SUPER annoying!). I am very curious to see what this kid will be when he grows up (assuming he stays out of jail!)
June 21st, 2009 at 5:29 pmI watched The Breakfast Club recently (after more than 20 yrs) - that interchange you describe sounds so much like that kid on that movie. You should watch it just for laughs.
Your fierce-loving, fierce-stubborn kids sound like the kind of people who will stand up for what they believe in. Hang in there - it’s hardest on mom!
June 21st, 2009 at 5:56 pmMt Everest comes to mind, not that you have to climb it but that they will. It’s boys like your two that fly to the moon, climb mountains, cross oceans in small boats and win battles in wars. Without boys like them we dont’ get men that do things that make headlines. Keep the faith Chris, they will one day make you proud. I would still perfect the file-in-the-cake just in case.
June 21st, 2009 at 6:38 pmOne of my children is just as you describe. She is a girl. She is 13 yrs old. Help me.
June 21st, 2009 at 8:11 pmShe was the most difficult of my pregnancies and births…I joke with her that she even fought me coming into the world!
They have actually discovered the gene for the thrillseeker child. When my mom, an RN, told me about this story in some medical publication she also told me her first response was to think about me and say, “Well, Thank GOD! It wasn’t our parenting.”
I’m adventurous, fun-loving, and if you mess with me, I’ll slit your throat. I guess you don’t grow out of it. : )
June 21st, 2009 at 8:20 pmI have four kids under age 6 and my only son (he’s 4) is well on his way to becoming inmate #1827538. Huge heart, though, and very protective of his sisters. I guess I can look forward to him at 12…and start stocking the wine cellar now! Thanks for a great blog. It’s always nice to read about other Moms and their real life battles.
June 21st, 2009 at 8:29 pmCan’t wait to read that article. Boy 1 has been like that since he was an infant. Had to be out of crib well before his first birthday because he kept climbing out. Then had to have TWO gates in the door of his room because he figured out how to open and unlock the front door. At 15 months. Punishments, consequences, none of it has any effect. We joke that when he uses his powers for good, he’s unstoppable. It’s when he uses his power for evil that it all goes straight down the drain.
June 21st, 2009 at 8:34 pmMy older son who will be 50 next month was just like that. At the age of 4 he told his Dad “It was worth it”, when he asked him, “Why did you do that, you knew you would get a spanking?” We did spank our kids when they were very young.
He wanted a unicycle when he was 13, so we got him one. We lived at the bottom of a hill. He learned it very well, scared our neighbors to death though. He jumped off the roof of our two story house, and said, ‘well, I jumped through the pine tree.” Twenty years ago he decided to do rock climbing, he does mountain bike racing. Still scaring Mom to death. The other son is one of the Austin cavers. They go caving in Mexico about once a moth. Aargh!!!
June 21st, 2009 at 8:53 pmYou have NO idea how much I want to hear the rest of the tree-chopping story. Seriously!
My oldest daughter (6) is like that except for pain. She has a low pain tolerance, with all the whining over scratches as evidence. But the whole part about not thinking before acting, not learning from mistakes? That is totally her. Just today we had a repeat performance that proves she doesn’t learn, and no punishment seems to make any difference.
It’s a wonder that we, as parents, are not all raging alcoholics.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:09 pmI have one of those, too. My third (and last) child; she’s 4 years old. She is extremely strong willed. Punishment rarely fazes her. She’s gone through glass doors, climbed every thing in sight, and nearly drowned multiple times because she was determined to go ’swimming’ on her own. I used to pray that I could break her strong will. Then realized that the strong will isn’t necessarily the bad thing, it’s just where she focuses it. So, now I just pray that she will one day use her ‘powers’ for good (and not evil) Hehe! It’s my prayer that the very characteristics that make her a difficult child will make her a strong and effective adult.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pmDou you live with me? this could so be my 10 year old. Higher faster stronger and NOTHING deters him. He doesn’t care if I scream and yell til I’m hoarse and the veins in my head pulsate to the point of explosion. The local er has a room for him it’s like his Cheers, everybody knows his name there.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:19 pmOh, yes. My first is severely disabled so when my second was born and developed typically, I started thinking that I was a spectacular mother with a very different perspective. I thought that his jolliness, his ability to sleep well and transition was all due to this “perspective” that I had (nothing could be harder than a child with disabilities). Then his brother was born and I haven’t had a day since (eight years) that I haven’t thought, “Shit, what the heck am I doing?” and “What is WRONG with him?” In other words, I realized that THEY ARE WHO THEY ARE and that it’s not so much about ME. Within reason, of course!
Thanks for sharing that with us — it gave me a good chuckle…
June 21st, 2009 at 9:27 pmI love that you’re honest. Bless you. The whole mama deal would be easier if everyone would just tell it like it is.
June 21st, 2009 at 9:34 pmHow come I can’t figure out the file cake thing? Feel silly, but super curious.
Chris says: It refers to baking a cake with a file hidden inside so the prisoner could use it to cut through the bars and escape.
June 21st, 2009 at 10:56 pmIs he by any chance a Scorpio? My first is very much like this and so was I when I was young. We are both firey Scorpios.
June 21st, 2009 at 10:59 pmI have one like that too. He is my first and I was sure that I had committed some basic parenting error and had turned my kid into a sociopath. But the next ones were not like that at all. And you are so right - if my plane crashed in a jungle, he is totally who I would want with me. I love this post. It makes me look at him in a whole new way.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:08 pmAnd you have just described my 8 year old, perfectly.
And a conversation that we actually had with our best friends last year went something like this….
We were showing our son how to use a knife to whittle and carve and our friend was freaking out that we would give a knife to our, then, 7 year old. Our response was that he was going to find and use the knife anyway, and we’d much rather give him the proper skills to be able to use it properly/safely as opposed to making it a contraband item to take and hide and use in secret.
He flipped out about our son losing a finger or an eye and I calmly replied that we are aware of who our son is and that we have come to grips with the fact that there is a good possibility that he will not make it to adulthood without losing a finger or an eye or some other apendange, but we will give him the best possible chance at getting there with them all attached. I followed that with a “welcome to my world” and walked away.
This is my reality. Thanks for sharing this with us.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:25 pmJust don’t give those two any caffeine!! (uh, kidding)
June 21st, 2009 at 11:42 pmOh my. My sister has one of these kids and I just spent the last two weeks with her in my home. Let me just say, both of you have your work cut out for you. None of my kids are like that….and so this was very eye opening, having her in my home. Having such a ragingly defiant child in my face like that was just….well, lets just say I almost had to up my dose of blood pressure meds while she was here!!LOL She’d just get in the adults faces and refuse to behave. She is only 7. I’m scared for the teenager version of this.
June 21st, 2009 at 11:54 pmGod. Here I am in Rhode Island, about to go to sleep after another cold and unsummery day. I checked your blog as I do most nights, looking for a laugh or some validation that I’m fighting the good fight. Tonight’s post, though, was so valuable. My little guy, my impossible child that I thought could care less, the one I thought I’d failed completely and couldn’t parent… Duh. That’s why it isn’t working. Why didn’t I think of this?
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 amBack to the trenches (as you put it) tomorrow. I don’t think “profound” is an overstatement. Thank you.
oh my god chris!!!!!my second son is exactly like this….when he was 2 and a half he locked me and my husband in our bedroom took the keys of the truck ,went outside and proceeded to start truck….only by shouting out the window to our neighbours were we rescued!!!! oohhh i have too many stories chris….he used to knock chunks of plaster off the walls with hammers….unscrewed every doorhandle and door hinge in the house….unscrewed all the legs from our dining room table-sat down to dinner one day and the whole thing collapsed!!!!! having said that….he is the one i would want with me if i was stranded in the jungle…he fixes everything in the house from computers to tv..anything…he’s 10 now and so strong willed and fearless ….i dread what kind of teenager he will be!!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:00 amAaaaah! My oldest is just like the sons you speak of in this post. My husband says he’s got some death wish. He is five and I am trying to accept him as who he is, but others make me feels like I am a horrible parent for not being able to control the kid. Just how much control do we have? Influence maybe, but I think he has most of the control.
He is defiant, because he knows there is only so much I can do, and the more I push back, the more he pushes back. I have definitely seen praise work, but when they have done wrong, all you want them to do is repent, and when they don’t– you seriously contemplate kicking their butt until they do, but as you mentioned, that would only fuel their behavior. I tell my oldest that there are places for crazy people with white walls and no t.v., and I have mentioned juvi to this same kid which only scares him temporarily. My other child is nothing like my oldest. Thank you for sharing this article. I have been thinking most recently that their has to be a positive place in society for such a difficult and stubborn child.
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:42 amI just realised that the last paragraph you posted from Lykken about being naturally fearless completely describes my 3rd son and youngest child, he’s only 2.5yrs.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 amHe’ll no doubt be the first of my children to go to hospital with a head injury. That kids knows no fear at all. He’s climbed a 2 storey ladder,climbs anything around, thrown himself into the ocean despite not being able to swim, and has the uncanny ability to bounce off walls. I’m in for a wild ride, I see!
Chris,
This TOTALLY resonates with me. It is my 9 year old daughter. It took me ages (years!) to work out that she had this really hard stubborn wiring that wasn’t just a personality clash, partly because I have never known or heard of another child with it.
All the other stuff is her too (physically able, logical, very practical and great at DIY, unlike me!) however it’s the stubborn streak that is difficult for a parent.
There is no punishment that works on her either (we have thse same conversations!) HAVE YOU FOUND ANYTHING THAT WORKS? Like you, I honestly think she would let me throw her out an upstairs window before backing down in a scolding debate. Which obviously I wouldn’t do. But I do understand the ‘they dig their heels in more, I get more angry’ scenarios.
Any tips?
June 22nd, 2009 at 6:25 amFascinating article. Thanks for the link.
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:53 amThank you for posting the link to that Atlantic article — it’s fascinating! And of course I enjoyed your post too, as I always do
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 ami read the extra part and had to comment again
OMG OMG OMG Drilled his own finger OMG
tried to read about the fire in the oven but the link was not there. oh well i am sure it was another OMG story
thanks for sharing and showing us that children are not all part of the same mold. and when ours are acting in a not so normal way we need to remember that it is normal for them.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 amOh my gosh! I have one of them too. He doesnt feel pain either, like the time in January of this year when he had his wrist slashed open by a hockey skate by kid on opposing hockey team, where his nerves/artery/ligaments/tendons were severed. When I got the hospital, there he was sitting there, just sitting there, with this expression on this face like ‘what is everybody so excited about’ !!!! And the time I tried to punish him for not turning in numerous assignments, by saying he had to be done playing football, and when he finally got all of the assignments turned in, I said he could rejoin the team, his response “nah”. What is a mother to do!?????? He drives me absolutely nuts but he’s the sweetest darn kid….gotta love em.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 amWow, what an entry. My oldest son (I have two boys) who is about to go off to college is this to a tee. Highest IQ in the family, but it often appears his sense of reason, and careful attention to potential consequences has not been big in his world. From the time of CONCEPTION he has pushed the limits. (Preterm labor from 20 weeks on, and he was 6 weeks early). Whatever line we have drawn for him, he has stepped over it. He’s a fly by the seat of his pants kind of kid. I know he loves us, but he has never taken our advice. He’s definitely needed to find his own way. It’s funny because now that he’s 18, he tells me he’s going to be A VERY STRICT PARENT….bwahahahahahaha….anyway, temperment is definitely a big part of the picture. And since his is so different from mine, I’m happy hair color has been invented.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 amas far as “what punishments work????” Here’s what I’ve found since he’s now 18…even though i have frequently grown weary in trying to teach him potential wrongs/dangers/not a good idea of is actions, I had to keep my parental “hat” on and do it anyway. But the best consequences for him have always been the natural ones. that’s why I always warn him of what those will be. Those natural consequences, albeit, sometimes more painful than any punishment I could give him, have always been his best teacher. I’ve just always been a safe place for him to fall. And in the end, isn’t that really all we can offer our offspring? That safe place to fall? He’s a great kid though, but so far, I don’t see his personality changing!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 amI too have one of those diffcult children, and I can identify with every word you wrote.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 amWonderful post! I commend you for not resorting to having these kids labeled and drugged, like so many parents feel compelled to do these days.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 amAh yes, my 3rd is the same way. High pain threshold, doesn’t respond to threats or punishments, giant heart, fearless, shaving years off my life since he was about 5 months old. He’s the one of the four that all the stories are about. And although he’s done so many things that could have gotten him killed (literally) he almost always comes out unscathed. If you ever figure out how to get yours to bend their will even a fraction, could you let me know?
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:00 amHow many times have I said this poem to my 12 yr. old??!!
There was a little girl,
that had a little curl,
right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
she was VERY VERY good
and when she was bad,
she was HORRID!!
When my daughter is happy - we are all happy. When she’s upset - WATCH OUT!
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 amI could have written those exact words about my 17 year old…arrrghhh !
so how happy was I to see him drive 7 hours south for the summer to work as a camp counselor…beyond thrilled !
and when he gets back and starts his senior year….yep, I’ll be praying for a miracle !
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 amI’ve never posted a comment here before but I just couldn’t resist this one.
Chris, this sounds exactly like my husband. My MIL tells me similar stories of his childhood. When DH was barely 18 his parents shipped him off to the Air Force. My MIL says she did it to save him from himself and society. He hated them for it at first but now he says it was the best thing his parents ever did for him. My husband is a Pastor now. Yes, really.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:12 amThanks for writing this post today. My almost five-year-old son is this same way. Such a strong will! After a rather difficult weekend with him I started out this morning wondering, once again, what I’m doing wrong. It’s wonderful to hear your stories and feel like I’m not alone in this. Like you said, my son also loves fiercely and does everything with gusto and passion. I quality I wouldn’t want him to give up.
Thanks again!
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pmI just read about the fingernail. OUCH. But there is certainly a need for the fearless in this world…if you can manage to get him out there in one piece, I guess!
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:46 pmMy 13yo son is just like that, too. He has to have the last word (no matter how many more punishments it brings–and trust me, it does!), and my 9yo daughter will even say to him, “Are you STUPID? Don’t you see how mad mom is? Just AGREE with her? APOLOGIZE!” SHE clearly gets it, but he is too stubborn to give in. It started in babyhood, even; as fun-loving and happy as he was, he would not respond to the word “no,” to time-outs or even to spankings. Nothing worked–only praise (which I learned from his pediatrician might be the perfect solution, and for the most part, it was/is). With my daughter, she always listened and wanted to please us. It was at that point that I realized hey, maybe I really CAN be a good mother and my son’s behavior is not a direct result of crappy parenting!
June 22nd, 2009 at 1:29 pmSon #2 (my 4th child) is this child. He climbed before he could crawl. As soon as he could walk, he climbed higher. He has no fear. He does things that make me look at him and say “WHY do you do this to me?!”. Punishments- he laughs at them. His Kindergarten teacher told me “you had better nip his behavior in the bud because I can only imagine what he will be like as a teenager”. Hmmm….well, if he’s fearless, a hard worker, sensitive and caring, a sense of humor that ignites a crowd, smart and intuitive, loves to live life and has great physical agility well I would say he’ll be one pretty amazing teenager. Sure he kills the bug on the playground the other students are building a home for, sure he defies authority at times especially when authority can provide no good reason for something other than “because” and sure he will tease and taunt every girl he knows and then laugh and dazzle them with his dimples. But a bad kid he is not. I am confident that this child will be a great man some day- from the moment hubby and I first met him we knew there was something very special about him (and we had 3 other babies before him that made our eyes twinkle upon firs sight). THIS child is unique and special and I will not squash that. He drives me crazy- but I will not strive to “nip that in the bud”. Cheer up Chris- you’re not alone.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 pmIt is such a relief to hear another mom going through the same thing as we are with our son! And I only have two kids, a boy and a girl. But this boy of mine…all my gray hairs are from him! He is stubborn as the day is long and nothing, NOTHING works with him for punishment. His standard response are “Whatever” and “So” when we tell him he is grounded, no more tv, no riding his bike, etc. Yet he is by far the most loving and considerate of my two kids. Most days all I can do is shake my head and walk in the other direction….
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:00 pmOne more thing- after I read some comments here like “I would hate to see the teenage version of this” and kids being “ragingly defiant” or “parents drugging” kids like this. I don’t think rage is the proper word, and kids like this are not ADD or ADHD. Perhaps it’s hard for someone who isn’t parenting a kid like this to understand. These are not angry, violent, or hyperactive children. If they try your patience, it is because they become, in some ways, intellectually equal to adults sooner than other kids. It is because, by their nature, they THINK differently than adults- adults who supposedly know the best way all the time but usually only see one way to do something. These are highly physical, inquisitive and sensitive kids. These are our sheriffs and state troopers, firefighters, pilots, utility linemen, surgeons, paramedics, animal trainers, construction workers, and research scientists of the future. Without fear of physical pain or failure, these kids grow up to do extraordinary things that most others wouldn’t dare to do.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:05 pmThis sounds exactly like my husband, word for word. He grew up good - let’s hope our little one on the way does too. I’m sure your boys will be great - that love passionately thing should help them find jobs they really truly love and are ingenious at. It did with my hubby and I’m jealous every day of his passion for his work…
But I can’t imagine raising him from scratch. Good luck.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pmThe best punishment that we have come up with for our child who is much like yours is to take away choices. I make all the choices from what you eat and when to what you wear to how you will wear your hair, etc. A friend told me that she did this with her daughter and I thought hmm. I actually worked.
June 22nd, 2009 at 3:42 pmYour stories of how different your kids are, reinforce to me that it’s much more nature than nurture that determines who we are.
June 22nd, 2009 at 6:15 pmI have one kid and luckily my first kid has a sweet temperament. Coulda been a lot different.
TWO WEBSITES:
celebratecalm.com
champladder.com
Chris says: While I appreciate the sentiment, when I said I have tried everything I meant EVERYTHING. Not these programs perse, but similar things.
June 22nd, 2009 at 6:59 pmI’ve been reading and loving your blog for some time now. I can totally relate to this post. I know you get some criticism occasionally but I wanted to post and let you know that I love you for being real. Thank you!
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:27 pmA mild form of Asperger’s??
Chris says: No, I really don’t think that is it. I think the other people who have commented and have similar children would agree with me.
June 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 pmI have these children as well, one a girl, and one a boy. They drive me INSANE, but on some level I don’t worry about them quite as much in the long run….if I survive them!
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:06 pmYes! I just read a couple of your comments, and my son, who fits this mold wants to be a soldier, or a police man….not such a bad thing? That said, being hard of hearing/deaf kind of limits him in terms of these jobs, at least for now
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 pmI’ve been known to actually sit on my child with my legs wrapped around her while she actually foamed at the mouth from anger. I can’t say I’m proud of it but by damn, the thought of having Linda Blair for a daughter scares the shit out of me.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 pmI just had a thought. Your 13 yo, is he the one whose name starts with C? Because if it is, I think I figured out the problem, and we have cursed our children with that name; that is the name of my 9yo!
And I do agree, it is not Asperger’s at all. There is no element of social ineptitude (other than possibly always trying to be the boss). Maybe it’s another syndrome altogether, and they will name it C- Syndrome! LOL
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 pmI hope I didn’t offend anyone by using the word “ineptitude” in my last post, oops. It’s not really what I meant, but I didn’t stop to think more carefully about what word I wanted to use. I just really meant the social difficulties in relating to other people. Yes, difficulties would be a better word.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 pmSlight back-story - my son is 14, has never had currency (which sucked when he was 3, sucks even more now!) and I have a complete head of salt & pepper hair. I’ve been going gray since I was 18.
My boy…when caught BOLD-FACE lying to his Dad & I…and after we punished his 4 siblings…looked at me when he decided to confess…with a HUGE grin on his face. I looked at him so furious I didn’t even know what to say. He looked at me, cocked his head, smiled bigger and said “What’s one more gray hair?”.
At that point I couldn’t be mad anymore…and he knew that making me laugh would make me stop being mad. Damn.
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:39 pmNope, not Aspergers. I’m also a mental health counselor, so I beat myself up extra hard for not having the answers. Except that I don’t think there ARE answers. It’s just THEM. They aren’t cruel, they are just free spirited, highly individualistic kids. They are social and charming and bright, and have a high ability to conform on THEIR timeframe. And they are hard as hell to parent, for certain…!
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:07 pmaspergers!!!!!!!!! yet another label…. and yes i am aware of my poor punctuation…i’m lazy………..
June 23rd, 2009 at 5:28 amAGREE I DO. NO LABELS PLEASE.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:38 amThe oldest of my three sons (6)is like that. I’ve often compared him to your 9 year old. It makes me feel SO guilty that I would so much rather be around the other two (3 and 1). We have butted heads his whole life, and it takes MOUNTAINS of patience to deal with him. Sometimes I have it, sometimes I don’t. I hope we are friends when he’s grown. Scares me reading this, knowing that there is no “growing out of it.” It’s his personality and he’s sticking with it.
June 23rd, 2009 at 7:50 amRe: the edit about the fire: If criminals and heroes are twigs of the same branch, considering a gentle nudge toward fire fighting.
Also, I laughed at the Breakfast Club type exchange between the two of you. I have yet to see whether or not I have one of these children. I’ll keep this post in mind for future reference.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:52 amMy son who just turned 14yo on Saturday is just like that. A couple months ago I read a book from the library called “Have a New Kid by Friday” and it talks about the ABCs (attitude, behavior and character I think it was). Very enlightening and we have WAY less battles now - I just refuse to engage in every little battle and things are so much calmer!
June 23rd, 2009 at 3:25 pmI don’t recall your kids ages, is your 13 year old your 2nd or 3rd son?
Chris says: 2nd son.
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:22 pmIt is definitely not Asperger’s in our case. My child is very conforming, willing to please and with “exemplary role model behavior” at school. She is also very academically able, but with a high social intelligence and emotional maturity (according to her teacher) which I don’t think are typical Asperger’s traits. I would not describe her as particularly wild or free spirited, but extremely stubborn. Thus positive praise works well, punishment not at all.
June 24th, 2009 at 3:06 amMy second (a daughter) is just like that, climbing on the window sill at 10 months, cracking her head at 1 years old, by now (5 years old) she has split her eye brow, cracked her head twice… Everything is a negotiation. Punishment doesn’t work. Bum smacks don’t work. Go to your room doesn’t work. She is as stubborn as steel. She is very smart, was skipped already to start school, is a beatiful, strong, amazing child, but STUBBORN. She loves her baby sister, loves her older brother. but STUBBORN. I know she will be the office b***h as far as the girls there are concerned, as she will always have her way. All girls will hate her, envy her looks/body/brains, but she will be ok, no one will be able to run over her or take advantage or her. It is hard for us now, but at least she will be assertive and stand up for herself later on.
June 24th, 2009 at 7:47 amI love the fun and crazy boy stories! My grandmother tells a great story about how my dad and uncles once dug a tunnel UNDER the house! They worked on it for weeks and covered the hole with boards and brush so it wouldn’t be discovered! All of these naughty boys are now highly respectable men (a teacher, a doctor and a congressman). My grandmother discovered it just as it was almost finished and my dad is still bitter about filling it in before it was finished. He’s 60.
Ahhhh, these are the days you will remember!
June 25th, 2009 at 2:41 amYou’ve got a Hunter Gatherer there, my dear.
I have two of them myself.
Back in the day he would have been the Warrior Chief. Protecting his tribe, bringing in the most food and enjoying the biggest gaggle of babes.
My Aunt tells stories of my Grandmother sitting on the floor crying tears of frustration over my Dad.
My Dad who at SIX was hopping trains to the next town over to visit his Grandfather.
My Dad who in the Viet Nam war saved the lives of everyone in his fox hole as he STOOD UP and send over 20 of the enemy to their reward on high by letting his machine gun go wild.
He brought home a purple heart, a bronze star and two silver stars.
My Dad who even at 60+ still has women telling me how attractive he is and attracted they are to him. eww. Uh. He’s 5′10″ and keeps three of his teeth in a glass at night. lol.
My Dad who survived growing up in an orphanage after his Dad died, two tours of Viet Nam, and was then personally hired on by Jimmy Carter after he got out of the military.
My Dad who holds (or I should say the government holds) a zillion patents on the sattellites he helped to build and put into their orbits.
My Dad who still gets calls from very high government officials asking for consultations in all matters of security.
He’s still a force of nature. And he’s become the leader of his now small town. He’ll be a Warrior Chief until the day he dies.
I’ve got two of my own.
And it sounds as though you have one too.
My best advice? Don’t engage in the battle of the wills. Take the time to explain and discuss. Ask for ideas from your son and together work on a solution.
Explain that some rules are non-negotiable and make sure the consequence is known up front. If the rule is broken calmly let him know that by his own choice he will now blah, blah, blah.
And then walk away.
It’s a rough road some days. But my now 20 year old, who I seriously thought I might strangle before he made it this far, has grown into the most amazing young man. He’s strong. He’s true to himself. He helps so many others. He’s the same kind of Warrior Chief my Dad is.
He’s got the gaggle of babes. Although this kid is 6′3″ and built like a linebacker.
And I have no doubt he’ll change the world for the better.
June 25th, 2009 at 10:39 amHa! Boy can I relate. My middle son is just like that. He is now 26. He is the 2 year old who would fix someone’s toilet while we were visiting their house.The 5 year old who set fire to a tree. Once when he was 5 the school bus dropped him off before I made it home. I was horrified and worried sick. What did I find when I arrived home? He had broken into the house and was sitting at the table ,calmly eating cereal.He’s the kid who blew up the backyard with a lighter and hairspray.(we all hid behind the couch in the dark ,when the fire department came)He’s the kid who cut his fingertips off with a meat cleaver. But….he’s also the one who taught himself to sew at 15,and can reupholster a car ,made his girlfriends prom dress and just did the flowers for his brothers wedding. He does backflips while wakeboarding .He is Mcguiver. We jokingly say “what would Ian do?” when faced with a difficult situation.
He still makes things and amazes everyone with his creativity.
check it out.
http://craftyslackers.net/
I have 3 sons and only one Mcgiver. He truly WAS born this way. Just make sure you have good health insurance. And nerves of steel. The rest is gravy :))
June 25th, 2009 at 11:22 amOh p.s. I forgot ,when he was about 19 or 20 he cut his Nissan ultima into a pickup truck one day after work. The pictures are on his website.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:25 amMy nephew who is now 16, is exactly like that. I know him very well as my sister and I live on the same street and our families are very close. I have been through the entire child rearing process with her. The only thing that works is actually doing NOTHING most of the time. Everything is about logical consequences. There is a book that my sister read called something like that… Try to completely stay out of his life as much as possible. If you send him to school (I think right now you are homeschooling all but the high school age son though), stay out of the school business etc…The other kids might not like it because they will see that you do different things with him, but we have explained to all of our kids that each of them require different sorts of support to help them become the best of what they will be and that this is what B. needs. The one thing that has helped so much is supporting the passions of my nephew. He loves sports, and he is very involved in his high school teams. He is passionate about his friends, and he has excellent friends so he has freedom to do certain things with them (they are trustworthy etc…). My sister doesn’t even require him to come to the table for dinner (he just refuses to eat on any sort of regular schedule) which makes her CRAZY (believe me this is the very least of the things that make her crazy). But, she honestly tries not to require any stuff that somehow gets his panties in a knot. He does have chores, and he does have to be home at certain times etc which he complies with and when he has not, the only thing that she does is take away his computer/cell phone. Sometimes that does not work either, but she does it because she can stay really calm and just take it away. The key thing, and you know this is the hardest is to stay unemotional. State the facts. But my sister always says that B. was just born ready to be on his own and grown up. He cannot stand anyone to tell him what to do. The coaches and teachers who work best with him are those whom he respects because they are clear, strict and unemotional. The worst ones are those who try to win him over and give him too many chances. Once he loses their respect, just forget it. He is a good student and not into any drugs, drinking etc…so she does not have any of that stuff to worry about, and I think knowing that he is not a criminal or a trouble maker etc…(except at home) makes it easier when you have a difficult kid. Also she has tried EVERYTHING since he was young - psychologists, psychiatrists, meds, no meds, behavior modification, a thousand books, a million consults, full blown analysis yadayada. The only thing that has made a modicum of difference is that he is now older and more able to take on the responsibilities that help him be independent and the logical consequences book. She wishes she knew this then, and she could have thousands and thousands of dollars for her year long trip around the world that she would like to take when he finally goes to college. This is one child who will not be coming back home to live!!!!! Good luck and I feel for you because it really does make a parent completely psychotic.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:53 amI have a cousin who was exactly like this. He drove my Aunt crazy! He climbed before he crawled, would take apart any appliance just to see how it worked, always had scrapes and bruises,didn’t sleep through the night until he was 18 mos. old… She also had his hearing tested twice, she told the Dr. he never listens!! His hearing was normal. He graduated from M.I.T. with a degree in chemical engineering degree and is now married with a very active 1 yr old daughter. Ha!
June 30th, 2009 at 9:24 amChris, you and I have spoken about this before. But THANK YOU for writing it out.
And thank you commenters. This post has really given me a chance to read about more stories and learn about kids that are just like my son. This is clearly more common than I realized.
July 1st, 2009 at 11:08 pmChris, are you sure we aren’t related?! You’ve pretty much just described all of my family, especially my cousins. Most of us have been diagnosed with ADHD, including myself although we generally prefer the term “stupid-smart”. Stupid enough to ride a bike into a stack of bee hives but smart enough to survive until adulthood. Or stupid enough to jump onto a moving vehicle but smart enough to drag yourself and your sister out of the car before it smashed into a fence. They’re defiant, crazy, and unfazed by pain, danger, heights and consequences. They’re also extremely intelligent, creative, passionate, and great in an emergency. We can drive each other wild, but I can’t imagine a better family.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:01 amUnfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be a great deal you can do about the defiance. It can be pretty hard to get through to someone who just doesn’t understand what the fuss is all about. The most successful approach seems to be patience, and running them ragged! Endurance running, martial arts, rock climbing- we tend to prefer individual pursuits that require physical and mental stamina and have a element of danger. As adults, most of us ended up as environmental scientists and teachers. All of us made it to adulthood with both eyes and all of our limbs and digits (although one cousin has received over 500 stitches). I’m not sure if this offers you much hope but we all seem to mellow out around age 25. And despite some gallant efforts, all of us have been smart enough to stay alive and out of prison.